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Mixel
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:37 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 932
Location: Leeds, UK

I've been using tiles lately. Thought of a couple of things I'd like to see one day;

More tiles isn't necessary, I was going to ask for that, but after reading it's 255 per /level/ not per game, 255 is ample, maybe excessive lol.

Ability to name each tile could be a *massive* time saver for me, when you have many similar tiles it can take a long time clicking through to find the right one. Doing it by appearances isn't easy when you have so many minute variations. :/

A zoomed preview option where the solid/empty/ledge (bottom left) thing is now. Or somewhere.. I could really do with is 2x or 3x zoom, working on 32x32px tile-maps on a high res display is pretty migraine inducing.

Thanks. Very Happy Neither of these are critical obviously.
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gyroscope
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:01 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Oct 2005
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Location: Kent, UK

Hi Mixel; I'll second your suggestions.

Quote:
Ability to name each tile...
That'd be high on my list as well (in fact, I posted the same thing as a suggestion a while back Wink)

Quote:
A zoomed preview option
That'd be great and a pixel editor as well perhaps like there is for animation frames. (Or maybe it's got that already...can't remember... Smile

Razz
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Cobra
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:38 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 28 May 2008
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Location: Australia

Quote:
That'd be great and a pixel editor as well perhaps like there is for animation frames. (Or maybe it's got that already...can't remember... Smile


Yep it does, I have accidently double clicked on my tiles a couple of times, so that is how I discovered it.
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gyroscope
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:56 am  Reply with quote



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Thanks Cobra, it's been a while since I've used PGF! Smile

Razz
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Jasoco
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:31 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 301

The way I see it, the only time you'll need more than 255 tiles is if you want to make a mosaic that is huge. In which case you should just create a piece of animated scenery.

My biggest BIGGEST want and really ONLY one right now is transparency on tiles so we can have at least one Paralax layer behind them. Even some NES games could do this. And SNES games and Genesis games did this standard. I find it hard to believe that PGF can't yet.

Please put it in Beta 11. Do it for the children. Very Happy
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Cheese-Seven
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:48 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 May 2008
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Location: Ohio

true dat, Jasoco. Cool
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Dr. Evil
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:36 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Jul 2007
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Agreed with Jasoco.
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Mixel
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:37 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 11 Mar 2005
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I'd love that too, Amiga games threw around tiles + a crapload of parallax layers too..

Saying that, there's a lot of flexibility without them too.. And for Jesse not to have included it already I'd imagine there's a good reason. Very Happy
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Cobra
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:43 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 28 May 2008
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Sounds like it would be a fair bit of work to implement having multiple layers of tiles with supported transparencies. Not impossible, but I don't think it'll be easy to add.
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Jasoco
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:55 am  Reply with quote



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It wouldn't be hard. The tile layer would just be another layer. The parallax system is already in place! The tile layer would just be one more layer to render. Besides, I'm only asking for one parallax layer behind the tiles. Not a half dozen! Maybe also one in front. But mainly one behind. IT IS NECESSARY FOR THE SURVIVAL OF THE FACTORY!
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Cheese-Seven
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:13 am  Reply with quote



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Exactly! Very Happy
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Mixel
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:22 am  Reply with quote



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I'm pretty sure jesse would like to see this feature as much as you, hehe.

I agree its very important but if it was that easy he would have done it, lol. How does PGF render levels from the tiles? The picture based levels are loaded like textures if i remember correctly and mapped onto big rectangles (why you can sometimes see the edges) .. The tile levels don't seem to work like that at all..

So If they use completely different rendering code it isn't necessarily trivial to make them have feature parity.. ?
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Jasoco
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:19 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Jun 2005
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What I'd really like to see, and it would probably be easier for Jesse to implement, is a tile editor with transparency in tiles that can save the tile map back into one single image for use in normal parallax levels.

Basically it'd be tile based, but it would save as a separate single image with opacity intact and would be used with other layers.

Actually, it'd probably just be good to have a separate program for this called "Tiled Level Creator" that could be used to create these tiled levels and export them to single images with masks that would then be used in PGF via Parallax level mode.

Would be a good alternative to making Jesse implement something so radically different. Sure it wouldn't load as fast, but it would be easier to create whole levels (Who can even create a whoooole single giant image of a level besides Jesse? Greenland looks amazing. But sadly not everyone can paint like that. Wink) that could then be used in our levels.

Someone should get on making a level editor that uses tiles for creation but allows for export to image/mask combos for use in PGF.

If I knew a thing about Cocoa coding I'd do it myself.
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Cheese-Seven
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:47 pm  Reply with quote



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Alright I'll actually contribute this time. Very Happy

I think that the tile transparency is perfect, and the
only other thing I would ask for is multiple tile layers. Very Happy

That would be great if it was added.
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Cobra
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:57 pm  Reply with quote



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Anyone have Photoshop? I think if you config it right you can have everything snap into place of a grid. Have your tiles on one image, and copy and paste them into the other. If the snap to grids work properly this should hopefully be along the lines of what you are after.

Gimp may do this, but I never liked Gimp so haven't tried.
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Cheese-Seven
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:49 am  Reply with quote



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That would probably work, but seeing as it wasn't made for that,
it probably wouldn't work as well as having it built in.

But thats still a good idea to use if this isn't added. Smile
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Mixel
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:12 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 11 Mar 2005
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Jasoco you've hit the nail on the head there. I'd probably be interested in using an editor like that for exteriors too. I looked around and found;

http://mapeditor.org/ its java, it's pretty fast, it's 10x more feature rich than the PGF map editor and it definitely works.. it has layers and transparent colours (so you can layer loads of different tiles above each other, very interesting!), i had it up and running with a tileset based on an image within 30mins.. you can make an image like that by just plopping down your tiles with the PGF tile editor in the same order they're displayed in the palette in PGF, then screen capture the rectangle of tiles, hehe.

You can make a layer below and fill bucket it in a crazy colour, say bright pink, then export the map as a PNG. The authors are working on making it so it exports with PNG transparency in blank areas so the pink stage probably won't always be necessary.

I went into their chat room and got help within 5 minutes. Because its a java app, it has memory security issues - if you try to export as an image it'll complain that you dont have enough memory probably..

launch it from the terminal with something like:
java -Xmx2000000000 -jar tiled.jar
(from within the tiled folder) - that will assign it 2GB of ram, which means you'd need 2GB ram, you cant put a higher number than the amount of RAM your Mac has..

Turn off the grid before you export too, or it'll include the grid in the image. XD I dont think it supports variable transparency, but it does support a transparent colour in the tileset itself, which suits what i'd want.


Hurrah! Tiled editable maps that let you use parallax whiles ability to draw lines of tiles, copy and paste them and move entire chunks of the map!. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy


----

I've tried the photoshop method and its really not ideal at all, to keep it editable you end up with 100000000000000 layers, lol.. Also you have the problem where if you change a single tile.. well, you're screwed and have to replace them all manually.. really not good. I need to be able to edit tiles mid level as sometimes they dont stitch as well as I'd expected..

----
Jasoco wrote:
Sure it wouldn't load as fast, but it would be easier to create whole levels (Who can even create a whoooole single giant image of a level besides Jesse? Greenland looks amazing. But sadly not everyone can paint like that. Wink)

*sobs* it took months to paint that swamp for ZH. Wink Seriously though, I'm beginning to feel like loading isn't an issue - tech has caught up with PGF. Very Happy ZH has some of the most ridiculously vast images anyone's ever likely to throw at PGF and the levels load almost instantly on my imac. Very Happy
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Cobra
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:48 am  Reply with quote



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Yeah, I didn't factor in a mass edit of all tiles of the same type.
This sounds pretty good, looks like you found what people are looking for Mixel.
Smile
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Jasoco
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:39 am  Reply with quote



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The only problem with using an external program is that you'd have to manually put every collision mask (Blue and green squares for defining solids) in place.

Mixel, that program looks pretty good. I'll have to play with it later.
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Dr. Evil
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:08 pm  Reply with quote



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Try this one: http://opensword.org/reptile/
I must confess, I've never actually USED it, but it seems to do what you were asking for Razz
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Mixel
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:44 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 11 Mar 2005
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Problem i have with anything by opensword is.. it's probably dead or dying. Same with pixen, that app gave me loads of headaches and crashed all the time but it's never getting updated.

Yeah, just tried out Reptile properly, it seems less advanced even than PGF's built in tile map thingy. :/ (which takes some doing!)

Mapeditor has a much nicer interface and is a lot more feature rich, and has ongoing development..
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Dr. Evil
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:48 pm  Reply with quote



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Mixel wrote:

Mapeditor has a much nicer interface and is a lot more feature rich, and has ongoing development..

Can I get a link?
I can't seem to find what you're talking about :S
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Mixel
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:40 pm  Reply with quote



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Http://mapeditor.org Smile
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Dr. Evil
PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:49 pm  Reply with quote



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Bad link?
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Mixel
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:53 am  Reply with quote



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Worked when I posted it.. Sad http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=tiled+editor&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 its all over google. I hope the project isn't totally dead.. That would be tooo ironic.
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