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<  Characters... why can't they be act correctly? ATTN: Jesse
Jasoco
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:28 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 301

Okay, this seems to be the biggest bug that is bugging me. I want to create a game where the enemies will walk back and forth non stop on like a platform or something, not stopping when they see the player, not turning to face me just because they hear me. Just wandering back and forth in place like that one in the demo level in the tutorial. The one where the enemy is running back and forth. It doesn't stop to greet me. It acts normally.

But I can't get them to act right.

Here is a video of how my character is acting... (Ignore that the player is Mario or that the enemy is a Shy Guy. They're placeholders as usual.)

http://www.jasoco.net/files/Power%20Game%20Factory/Character%20Bug%200001.mp4 (Download the file to your computer. It is an MPEG-4 file, should work in QuickTime or at least VLC. It is about 5MB.)

You'll notice that the enemy will walk to the left edge then turn around on cue, but as soon as it hits the edge, it seems to lose its mind. Notice the feet stop moving, like it no longer is walking, rather sliding on ice. It slides to the right side and turns back. When it hits the left edge again this time it falls off the edge. But it doesn't fall. No siree, gravity has little effect here. He slowly decends about 64 pixels. Not all the way to the ground, just 64 pixels. He'll hit the wall and bounce back. Frozen in air unable to move or do anything at all.

My player is now able to push him around like a rock. Forcing him to bounce back and forth between the walls.

All I want is a simple "Red Koopa Troopa/Pink Shyguy" style of enemy behavior where the enemy will walk straight until it hits the edge of the cliff then turns around.

I've tried to change settings. Nothing gives me the behavior I want. Nothing! What am I doing wrong? Here is my characters properties:

He has his Goals set well within the platforms bounds. I even tried to make it shorter but he keeps going and just slides.

(Copied directly from the ASCII text file created when a character type is exported)
Quote:
0=attackType
0=bloodType
0=explosionEffectWhenDying
None=childType
0=contrailTypeAlive
0=contrailTypeDead
0=contrailTypeDying
0=contrailTypeLanding
1=dropsAmmoType
1=dropsPowerUpType
0=dropsWeaponType
1=characterSetUsed
1=Appearance When Player Is Riding
3=BehavioralPreset
0=Affects Nearby Particles
0=Airborne Acceleration Multiplier
0.03=Airborne Deceleration Multiplier
0.35=Airborne Floatation
-1=Ammo Limit
50=Amount of Ammo in Each Pack Dropped
15=Attack Angle Leeway
350=Attack Range
1=Attack Repetitions
0=Attacks Always
0=Attacks Only if Provoked
1=Avoids Touching Other Characters
0=Becomes Unattached When Dying
0=Bleeding Resistance
0.5=Bounciness When Hitting Ground
1=Can Be Supported Laterally
0=Can Climb on Scenery
0=Can Not Attack When Jumping Faster Than
0=Can Not Be Hit While Attacking
0=Can Only Be Hit While Attacking
0=Can Open Doors
1=Can Ride Upon Platforms
0=Can Serve as Lateral Support
1=Can Trigger Hot Zones
1=Can Turn On Switches
1=Child Quantity
3=Climbing Speed Downward
3=Climbing Speed Horizontal
3=Climbing Speed Upward
1=Collides With Projectiles
1=Collides With Projectiles When Dead
1=Collides with Solid Material
1=Collides With Solid Material When Dead
3=Collision Class
0=Contrail Location X Alive
0=Contrail Location X Dead
0=Contrail Location X Dying
0=Contrail Location X Random Alive
0=Contrail Location X Random Dead
0=Contrail Location X Random Dying
0=Contrail Location Y Alive
0=Contrail Location Y Dead
0=Contrail Location Y Dying
0=Contrail Location Y Random Alive
0=Contrail Location Y Random Dead
0=Contrail Location Y Random Dying
0=Damaged By All Projectiles
0=Delay After Reaching Goal
180=Delay Before Dropped Items Disappear
90=Delay Between Attacks
32=Delay Between Attacking and Moving
25=Delay Between Changing Directions
7=Delay Between Changing Directions and Firing
10=Delay Between Contrails Alive
10=Delay Between Contrails Dead
10=Delay Between Contrails Dying
10=Delay Between Falling Back and Attacking
-1=Delay Between Jumps
60=Delay Between Random Sounds
0=Delay Between Random Sounds Random
8=Delay Between Strategic Decisions
0=Dies When Player Beats Level
155=Display Order
1=Display Scale
1=Fades Away When Killed
30=Fade Duration
0.03=Fall Back Deceleration Multiplier
0=Falling Damage
0=Flying Upward Acceleration Rate
2.1=Gravitational Acceleration Rate
0=Hearing Loss
1=Horizontal Acceleration Rate
0.17=Horizontal Deceleration Rate
0=Immune to Stomp Damage
0=Initial Downward Speed
50=Initial Hit Points
0=Initial Horizontal Speed
0=Initial Invincibility Duration
0=Injures All Other Characters By Touching Them
0=Injures Lighter Characters By Touching Them
1=Injures Player By Touching Him
0=Invincibility Duration After Being Hit
0=Is A Boss
0=Is A Platform
0=Is A Platform When Dead
0=Is A Vehicle
0=Is A Vehicle When Dead
1=Is Alive
0=Is Round
1=Items Dropped By Character Can Land On Platforms
2.5=Items Dropped By Character Downward Acceleration Rate
-8=Items Dropped By Character Initial Horizontal Speed
16=Items Dropped By Character Initial Horizontal Speed Random
21=Items Dropped By Character Initial Upward Speed
6=Items Dropped By Character Initial Upward Speed Random
16=Items Dropped By Character Maximum Downward Speed
100=Items Dropped By Character Point Value
0=Jumping Predictability
15=Jumping Speed
0=Jumps Off Cliffs
0=Jumps to Avoid Projectiles
0=Knee Bend When Jumping
0=Knee Bend When Landing
10=Launches Passengers When Dying
30=Lookout Attentiveness
15=Lookout Attentiveness Random
5=Maximum Downward Speed
32=Maximum ESP Distance
50=Maximum Hit Points
3=Maximum Horizontal Speed
600=Maximum Retreat Distance
125=Maximum Retreat Duration
0=Maximum Step Up
5=Maximum Vertical Speed
640=Maximum Viewing Distance
5=Maximum Voluntary Drop
125=Minimum Approach Distance
65=Minimum Safe Distance
0=Moves Down if Passenger Jumps Off
0=Moves Only if Passenger is Riding
0=Never Leaves Horizontal Goal Range
0=Never Leaves Vertical Goal Range
0=Noisiness While Jumping Up
100=Noisiness While Landing
0=Noisiness While Running
0=Number of Ammo Packs Dropped
1=Number of Power-Ups Dropped
0=Number of Weapons Dropped
0=Only Affected by Gravity When Dying
0=Passenger Dies When Vehicle Is Destroyed
0=Passengers Cant Jump Off While In Motion
0=Passengers Cant Walk Off While In Motion
0=Patrols When Player Location is Unknown
50=Persistence in Tracking Enemy
100=Point Value
0.66=Retreat Threshold
0=Runs Away When Out of Ammo
0.46=Slides Down Slopes Alive
0.46=Slides Down Slopes Dead
0.46=Slides Down Slopes Falling Back
0.5=Slipperiness
0=Stays with Clear Shot
1=Sticks to Platforms
0.3=Supports Shell Casings
30=Touch Damage Inflicted
20=Touch Damage Fall Back Amount
20=Touch Damage Launch Factor
0=Touch Damage Resistance Horizontal
0=Touch Damage Resistance Vertical
0=Touch Damage Rises When Character Is Moving
0=Triggers Animated Scenery
100=Value of Power Up Dropped
50=Weight
10=Weight When Dying


I am filing it as a bug for now as I am at a loss as to how to get an enemy to just be an enemy

It is my dream to set an option on a character and have it make me a generic "paces back and forth on a platform non stop without reacting to the player" type of enemy.

Thanks. If you need me to upload anything I can.
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gyroscope
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:29 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 309
Location: Kent, UK

Hi Jasoco, hope all's well! (Long time no hear...)

I know you want an answer from Jesse but perhaps a few suggestions here might help your prob?

Set the weight of the character to at least twice that of the player, and check "Never Leaves Horizontal Goal Range". And the third thing, in Character Types, set the Behavioral Preset to "Maintain Patrol Route"

Hope that sorts some of it for you...

Razz
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Jasoco
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 5:49 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 301

Been taking a break from game creation because of the character problems.

I already had "Maintain Patrol" on. But I just turned on the other two you said, the weight and "Never Leave Horizontal" but ended up with the same exact results. It will walk back and forth eventually losing footing and just sliding before eventually sliding right off the edge. Even with the enemies weight set high the player can still push it around when it's floating in air too. Sad

Any suggestions from Jesse I hope? Or anyone else. I'm open to anything. Will try everything until I get enemies that act like regular sidescrolling platformer enemies.
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gyroscope
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 9:11 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 309
Location: Kent, UK

Your char floating prob is a bit odd as you've got Airborne Floatation at a low (default) mark, so something else if affecting that...

Anyhow, you might consider setting your left goal further away from the edge of your ledge, another 30pxls to the right. If your char still falls off, then dunno...
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Jasoco
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 6:21 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 301

I set the bound to be 32 pixels from the two edges, now while the enemy never reaches the edge, thus never slides off, he still slides around the floor when turning around.

I don't know what else could be doing it.

I tried adjusting the maximum speed, both 1 and 5. 1 made him move very slow, but still slide around. In fact, when he turned around and started walking back right, he got scared of me and apparently refused to move forward anymore. At 5 he moved too fast and actually did slide about 16 pixels out of his boundaries.

All I want is enemies who will never ever leave their bounds no matter what, and if their feet are on the ground they will walk, and they will always move the same speed pacing back and forth.

Edit: Hang on, I think I might have found something I can work with. I'll keep you updated.

But still, I think it might be cool if we had much easier enemy behavior actions and types as well as a graphical "goals" setting feature. Like a box that appears when you select a character with drag corners to set the X and Y coordinates of a characters goals. So we don't have to type in the numbers manually all the time.
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gyroscope
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 10:15 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 309
Location: Kent, UK

Hi Jasoco

Don't know if this'll help with the sliding prob:

Set Maximum Downward Speed to 17 (MDS might be linked with the character's gravity settings) and perhaps make the character even heavier, 500 for instance...

Quote:
But still, I think it might be cool if we had much easier enemy behavior actions and types as well as a graphical "goals" setting feature. Like a box that appears when you select a character with drag corners to set the X and Y coordinates of a characters goals. So we don't have to type in the numbers manually all the time.

That's a neat idea; maybe post that in the Suggestions section for Jesse to consider?

Razz
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Jasoco
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 9:56 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 301

It think my main problem, at least the floating one, was due to constrained Y Goals. They were set too small. The problem was that the enemy was actually leaving the X goals causing him to fall off the edge and reach the Y goals which wasn't set to the grounds Y coordinate, thus causing him to just stop in midair unable to move. Freely floating back and forth.

It still doesn't explain how it could leave the X goals in the first place when they're set well within the edges. IMHO, if "Never leave goals" is set, the enemy should never leave the goals. it should always turn back right exactly at the very pixel the goal is set to.
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gyroscope
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 12:22 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 309
Location: Kent, UK

You're right about setting the Y coordinates to the same value, otherwise unknown errors creep in, I suppose...

Looking again at your video, I wondered if there is a "pixel tolerance" of 1 pxl either way (although I wouldn't have thought so, on second thoughts); it must have been something else which added just that one extra pixel to make him fall off...who knows! You've got it up and running again which is the main thing!

Really neat looking game, by the way...

Razz
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yanN
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 12:35 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 724
Location: London, UK

I´ve had simliar issues.. sorry for the late reply: but mine seemed to clear up fiddling with the numbers in the XY goals for the patrol route..
and checking the 'never leaves horeizontal/vertical range '.. if you have a character that likes to jump beware of the vertical one though.. Also, though you may already have found the solution.. if all you want is a character that moves left to right on its given platform and no other A.I. why not uncheck 'is alive' and see if that does the job..

the problem I now have is certain ninja ending up in a corner and insisting on running against a wall..

your suggestion on a 'hotzone'type box to visually set up the patrol area gets thumbs up from me aswell ! I wish the same for setting up 'is a ladder' so I don't have to make separate climbable areas on top of the background.. or a different coloured mask/ledge..

good to have you back Very Happy
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Jasoco
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 6:54 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 301

I'd really like to see water and swimmable masks in the mask section to make water that behaves like in pretty much every sidescroller since SMB. (Except Sonic.. Sonic's water sucked. It sucked ass! ASS I SAY! That is to say, Sonic's water wasn't swimmable.) The kind where if the player is in the water area, he would press jump repeatedly, if he's at the top, pressing jump and up would jump out, you know, the standard water behavior.
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Admin
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:29 am  Reply with quote
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Posts: 819
Location: Rusty Ship

Hey Jasoco, sorry to hear you've been having character trouble. I was able to make a properly behaving Mario-style enemy kind of like the guys in your video. I exported its character type and set and posted it here:

http://www.sawbladesoftware.com/sawbladesoftware/products/powergamefactory/forumimages/Snail.zip

If this doesn't help, feel free to post your game project online and I'll take a look at the characters and see what's going wrong.
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Jasoco
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:58 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 301

It's strange. I imported your character into my project and compared it to my Shy Guy. For some reason (After I set a patrol boundary) when your snail gets to the left goal it turns around and stops. Doesn't move at all. I can force it if I jump on it and knock it into the goal range. But it just stops. Which is odd because my Shyguy is set to "Delay before turning around" is set to 5. Yours is set to 0.

And even though my enemy is set to "Injure player", yours is set to not injure the player, yet it does when I touch it just like my Shyguy.

Seems my tweaked Shy Guy works better for now. As long as I set the goals correctly. (What I would love is for a way to have the goals set automatically so I don't have to set them for every pacing enemy I place on a platform. Or at least the visual goal markers.)

BTW, cute snail. Wish I could draw like that. It actually looks like it fits my game perfectly. Did you plan that or is this an enemy from one of your games?
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Mixel
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:44 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 932
Location: Leeds, UK

This might sound odd but does Jesse's snail work on a solid floor with no platforms above it in your project?

Earlier in ZH making (so, years ago, hehe) i encountered some odd behaviour with green block "jump throughable" platforms when other complex platform structures were above and below them. Enemies certainly used to start acting a bit oddly in certain places on the map. (bugs which may have been fixed a long time ago too) I've occasionally had a rat get stuck at one side of his patrol route, though its not happened for a while.
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Jasoco
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 6:35 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 301

Nope. It acts the same on a platform or on the ground floor. Very odd. Stops in place and refuses to move.
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