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<  the PGF Shoot-'em-Up side project
yanN
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:45 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 724
Location: London, UK

Mattob suggested we join forces for a PGF Shoot em Up side project
I hereby declare my love for Konami's Gradius/LifeForce on the NeS (or Salamander) and my aversion to modern bullet hell shooters where the background is whizzing by in 3d with crazy camera momentum distracting from the playing field.

Salamander profile:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salamander_(video_game)
LifeForce Review:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fx_jYtD-gwM&feature=fvst



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MATTOB
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:00 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 170

Oh yes, and here is some more for ya'll to get the juices flowing:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=InecomCompany#p/search/13/L4xCy1nhZN8

and of course:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=InecomCompany#p/search/0/L4xCy1nhZN8
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yanN
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:40 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 724
Location: London, UK

might give it a go on XBox live.. I used to play it on .. actually..
new mac..! must..instal..emulators..
I do remember this game being hard as nails though.. best brew some coffee then Smile

The genre storylines are usually..
topnotch starship/pilot vs. alien armada attacking Earth.

perhaps we can mix it up a little?
SHMUP + Lost inSpace + BattleStarGalactica = you and your band of pirates get sucked down a wormhole to the other side of the galaxy and you are trying to find your way back to earth but the only chance you have is making your way through an alien armada because they might have the technology you encountered before to warp you back.

PGF wise..The first things that come to mind:
-it requires forced scrolling to the right.
-Platforms are characters that do touch damage so you can crash into them
-how to create wave-like attack patterns for projectiles which can be shot for enemy ships
-the richochet weapon that "Walking Stick" had
-I think Cobra posted a thread on characters that help and follow you
-the alternate weapon thing PGF has so you can use the action button for a secondary weapon
-losts of enemy types seem fairly straight forward to recreate in PGF

we start with simple block graphics and when we have some mechanics set worry about art assets.. with the PGF Library we can easily export to each other.

wish list: an outrun style level progression where at the end of each level you choose a path which is reflected on the loading screen for each level.
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yanN
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:33 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 724
Location: London, UK

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFxuI7cBFhQ

I'lljust watch this instead.. instrad of playing myself
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MATTOB
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:37 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 170

Sounds like a good start. Some issues that would have to be addressed would be the fact that going off screen kills the player in PGF, so top and bottom of screen would have to be solid material (at least bottom) or, you could want the player to be destroyed when hitting the floor. Depends on what scenery is there.

Also, some levels may be vertical instead of always horizontal, but that would require a different player set and mechanics.

-Definitely requires forced scrolling, and no zoom.

-projectiles: can they be shot themselves and destroyed? Because I was thinking that the homing bullet physics makes for great flying patterns, especially at slower speeds, but if you cannot shoot the projectile (ship) then you will always be hit by it with no chance of defending. I've not messed around with projectiles very much so I don't know if they can be shot.

-Ricochet weapon would be easy, just set bounciness and there you go.

-simple parallax scrolling. Also, determine if this going to have a retro look as well as feel, (ie, are we going for that 8-bit blocky look, or a more organic modern look).

-The Force ball from the R-Type series could be done from attached scenery/helper character but it would be somewhat complicated to pull off. We'd have to experiment.

-We could make use of numerous enemies strung together with enemy chain links to create some of the more complex attack patterns. We could also have enemies anchored top and bottom of the screen (hover in place) with a string of enemy links blocking a pathway. That would be cool.

I agree we start with blocks, and work out ship speed, maneuverability, and weapons power against simple block enemies. The biggest deal would be spawning enemies from holes, pipes, set positions, etc, like they do in these types of games. Also, animated scenery for some level design manipulation.

-A door with high hit points that looks like asteroid rock, or machine, or whatever would be cool, you'd have to blast it to get to the next section before the scrolling screen ended you.

As for choosing a path, if you really wanted that we could do it by having it in game, whereupon the player can either go up or down in a fork in the road to a different hotzone that would lead to a new level. Keep in mind that if this is so, each proceeding level would have to link to another by skipping a level, as the level list is sequential in PGF. eg, level 1< level 2 or 3, so 2 doesn't link to 3, it links to 4. Does this make sense? It's complicated to explain.

Anyway, there you go!
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yanN
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:41 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 724
Location: London, UK

When projectile collision class is set to 256 it collides with all other projectiles.. When two projectiles have the same number they do not collide. Radius decides how big they are in terms of collision and not the sprite's actual appearance.. That is how we can have projectiles as ships shooting across the screen.

Using the chain mechanic of pgf will allow us to recreate certain enemies easily

Breakable objects that obstruct the path .. Ofcourse !

The r-type attachment is going to be tricky but we may come across something that could give it a character of it's own without being a clone

8bit look ? Uhm.. Nah.. Let's go crazy with biomechanics aliens etc. Like in r-type. we can keep it 640x 480 and keep the sprites small to give it a retro look but I do want to have fun creating graphics.. My ninja game is now 640 x 480 and that's pretty detailed

I understand pgf does levels linear but the player doesn't have to see that
Anyway.. That's wish fulfilment and not a high priority

As far as animation goes.. What about shooting? Usually you can only shoot to the right .. This might be very easy to do but thinking about it makes me wonder what happens with the various animations set for different directions.. Or maybe that will only be a concern with the enemy animation sets..

Why do you think the enemy spawn points will be a big deal ? I think of that as much easier than in my ninja game for some reason

Now.. To get crackin'
I'll try and have something up and running by saterday for you to look at.
I don't know how busy you are offline but I do have a full time job.. Unfortunately..
I think the first thing we need to get out of the way and agree upon is speed.. How fast will the scrolling be, how fast will the ship be able to move? How fast will he be able to shoot?

Ofcourse.. All those will be changeable according to level.. And power ups
But for a first level I mean







Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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MATTOB
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:21 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 170

Well, now!

I am laid off and unemployed in the states, as with most everyone else in California. But I am a full time radiology student, and that doesn't leave me with too much time...!

I'm also trying to finish Dead Town. I have 7 levels of awesomeness now.

The spawn points for enemies...well they might be easy, but I was thinking of the way the enemies come out of scenery in R-type. It can be done, but it will involve hot zones, and not to mention that enemies often spawn behind you too (which is no big deal, just have a hot zone ahead as well).

The collision thing with the projectile sounds great. I've never messed with that, but it will definitely make for awesome enemies, and they can spawn from all kinds of cool scenery points!

As for the player shooting, you just put in the same right facing sprites for the player as the left (so even facing left the player sprite still faces right) and disable all shooting directions except right. Easy! When the player turns left and moves instead of moving left and right he goes in reverse. I used this on a speedboat vehicle for my game and it works fine.

Scrolling should be somewhere (I think!) around a couple of pixels per tick. But, use your own judgment, I will tell you if I think it needs adjusting.

We'll have to clearly delineate work flow. When we get to it, art etc, who does what.
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yanN
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:45 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 724
Location: London, UK

Ah of course.. No mirror left checked
Enemies coming out of objects.. Or from Behind objects ? (high display order) If the object is animated then the enemies must be projectiles it fires.

Sorry to hear about the job situation.. It's only just getting better here though the new government just hit us with the biggest cuts ever innit.
I'm fortunate to work in a very busy place.. But that only leaves so much time for play..

Does that mean we're going to see another dead town demo sooner rather than later ?

We'll figure out work flow as we go along.. I'm sure
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MATTOB
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:18 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 06 Nov 2007
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I didn't think anyone was particularly interested, but I did get good feedback and I implemented all the changes that were asked.

I can have a new dead town demo up tomorrow, yep!
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yanN
PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:12 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 724
Location: London, UK

http://files.me.com/yann_guyt/8qofo5

its a game export so you can see what I've done..open it in pgf.. modify.. and export it back if you want.

there's a few interesting things I've discovered:
-when touch damaged resistance is zero and you fly into a pillar of solid
material you die.
-you can give the ship a lot of momentum when the horizontal deceleration is
less than 1
-you get pushed backwards when you touch the ground.. this is more obvious
when there's no auto scrolling to the right.
-When you do not check allow scrolling to the right + autoscroll to the right..
the ship gets pushed off-screen but the screen stays put.
-scrolling up and down was real janky until I increased the vertical scroll
limitator or something from 120 to 160

what I can't get round so far:
-the player can shoot left as well as right instead of always to the right.
this could be incorporated into a gameplay mechanic.
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Mich2
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:11 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 49
Location: Mastack City

Thanks to sharing what you discover YanN!
There are a lot's of things not yet discover in this engine Smile I say that like a joke, but when you try to find workarounds for create specific thing you need to this tricks and "bugs".
I discover recently there is a routine limitation. You can't play more than 8 routines, when they are link to each other without any delay. With a delay it's work, so you just have to write 1 tick.

I think we need to continue sharing wall this trickies things. Smile
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